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Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Aug 21, 2004 23:07:31 GMT -5
people always say love is the most powerful thing, it conquers all, it heals everything, its all you need. it reallly is so true.. and i see all these haters in this world and thats the only thing thats not beautiful here. people hate so much. if they're hurt, they hate. anger and sadness turns people into bitter scraps of humans and they waste away hating everything, maybe because no one else around them loved. and i truly think that is the only thing wrong with this world is that we hate so much and love so much less. someone flew a plane into a building and so we bomb the hell out of two countries. and so they, in reaction, hate even more and will probably fly more planes into bulidings or something of the sort. what you give is eventually what you'll get. we react like anger is some kind of solution to the problem and hurt that we have to go thru but really its just part of the problem. and too many people are doing this and it makes nothing better and thats why even tho im having the hardest time in my life and i could so easily hate all the people making my life hell but i wont and i guess ill just have to keep telling myself because its the only thing that makes me smile. so LOVE damnit!  i really dont have anyone to vent to so im sorry. |
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Post by BrightEyes05 on Aug 21, 2004 23:26:09 GMT -5
Is there too much hate in this world? Well, of course there is. Any hate is too much, really. But love is a very conditional thing, and saying that we should "all love one another" is bullshit. Should the irrational hate, i.e. racism, etc. stop? Hell yes. But you cant ask or force someone to love someone. It just doesnt work that way.
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Post by JoRi on Aug 21, 2004 23:30:12 GMT -5
you know what conquers all....bleach.
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Post by Um Jammer Lammy on Aug 21, 2004 23:37:11 GMT -5
We could all go and hug a tree and get high on life and all but some people just don't get it and are selfish and manipulative, greedy all very human flaws. Corruption people willing to work people in sweat shops for a dollar a day. Some people have just been dealt to in the cruelist of ways kids being bullied when they are young and have done nothing to deserve it. Why should they have to rise above it when those selfish greedy folk continue to pollute our race and make people sad and angry and all those things. Some people make the first post impossible thats what makes me angry.
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Post by FragmentofGlass on Aug 22, 2004 17:43:38 GMT -5
i dont hate because to me when you hate the only person at a disadvantage is yourself, it can make you bitter and sad
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Post by Sofee on Aug 23, 2004 5:53:19 GMT -5
i dont hate because to me when you hate the only person at a disadvantage is yourself, it can make you bitter and sad I agree. I don't want to end up hating people. I do dislike some people for certain reasons but I never try to be too hateful. I don't want to be bitter and sad. I just try to care more for the people who matter more. Anyone who treats me nice I will treat them nice in return. |
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Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Aug 23, 2004 23:16:33 GMT -5
Is there too much hate in this world? Well, of course there is. Any hate is too much, really. But love is a very conditional thing, and saying that we should "all love one another" is bullshit. Should the irrational hate, i.e. racism, etc. stop? Hell yes. But you cant ask or force someone to love someone. It just doesnt work that way. well thanks nick. i was actually suggesting everyone to be somehow forced to love everyone else? how do you read my mind so well.. i really cant understand how you could say any of that is bullshit. i think youre misinterpreting what i mean when i say 'love'. to love everyone does not mean that you are madly desperatley in love with every single person in this world. it means that you show love to everyone. that you live acceptance and respect and forgiveness and value and kindess to everyone you meet. you can love and show love to anyone and everyone and its not any bullshit. it can mean the world to someone and recently ive started to put just a little more effort into my philosophy and the results that you get from such miniscule work and effort is just insane to call bullshit. im not gonna tell stories and im not "forcing everyone to love everyone" but im sharing a philosophy that will ONLY make you a happier person and the world a better and happier place to share. i dont think thats bullshit at all. i dont believe there is such thing as rational hate so i dont think that just that "irrational hate" is causing pain. yes, if raccism and such were eliminated things would be better but things would also be better if you smiled at everyone you met, if you genuinely cared about strangers, if you respected and selflessly gave your services to all and any of those who truly need it. thats the love im talking about. and that is the kind of "bullshit" that we do need everywhere. its insane how much you can change with both little effortless gestures and actions and more difficult trials of forgivness and such. i never used to think about it and would just underestimate it, but now i just realize how it is the best thing we have and its free and you can give it to everyone and never run out and thats what we all need. |
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Post by BrightEyes05 on Aug 23, 2004 23:52:40 GMT -5
Your sarcasm is funny. . . . .
Like I said, love is a very conditional emotion. Even the kind you're speaking of. You cant "respect" strangers without knowing them... I mean, you can respect their individual rights as a human being (the right to live their life as they see fit, etc.) but respect is also conditional. Do I respect human life? Well yeah. But do I respect every person I've met. Hell no. There's a difference.
Selflessness is impossible. Try going a day without saying the word "I". You cant do it, I'll bet you any thing.. . . unless you start referring to yourself in the third person or as a different entity. Real acts of love arent selfless, because you derive a very selfish pleasure in seeing the ones you love happy, etc.
I'm perfectly happy (despite your best attempts to convince me that I hate myself and the world) without smiling to every single person I see, and without whoring myself out to the first person who is too lazy to do anything for themselves.
The altruism you're preaching is a self-defeating philosophy, and a disgusting one at that. Lets all become the slave of our neighbor! Yay!
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Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Aug 24, 2004 22:24:27 GMT -5
"Your sarcasm is funny. . . . ." thanks "Like I said, love is a very conditional emotion. Even the kind you're speaking of. You cant "respect" strangers without knowing them... I mean, you can respect their individual rights as a human being (the right to live their life as they see fit, etc.) but respect is also conditional. Do I respect human life? Well yeah. But do I respect every person I've met. Hell no. There's a difference. " yes. you can respect strangers without knowing them. im not sure how you concluded on that one at all.. that'd be interesting. but yes, even tho you "cant" (dont) respect everyone nick, thankfully that doesnt mean that everyone else cant respect people. and yes theres a difference between respecting human life and respecting an individual, i didnt really think there was any conflict there... but regardless, id like to know how it is impossible to respect a stranger? i can understand where it is right and natural to be dissapointed or upset with a person, but to disrespect them? that must be where we disagree. i think if you hold your respect for every individual it does so much more for them and the entire world instead of just giving up respect for a person who might've failed your expectations, even tho that may seem the natural thing to do, i am sure its not the right way to accomplish what we all want. "Selflessness is impossible. Try going a day without saying the word "I". You cant do it, I'll bet you any thing.. . . unless you start referring to yourself in the third person or as a different entity. Real acts of love arent selfless, because you derive a very selfish pleasure in seeing the ones you love happy, etc." you seem to limit your thinking so much.. how can you say selflessness is impossible? to act selflessly is definitley not impossible. ive done it, and id hope that you have too, its an excuse to say that. why not try to act selflessly anytime you can than to write it off as impossible and throw it out when that can do so much for everyone. your comment about going a day without saying "I" is a little funny.. is that honestly how you percieve selflessness? that you dont acknowledge yourself? ...because selflessness is usually used (also the way i used it) in context of putting someone elses wellbeing first in a decision. just to let you know.. its not not saying "I". "I'm perfectly happy (despite your best attempts to convince me that I hate myself and the world) without smiling to every single person I see, and without whoring myself out to the first person who is too lazy to do anything for themselves." well im glad your happy becuase you obviously dont give a damn if anyone else is happy, so im sure no one else besides yourself gives a damn if you are. i dont know if what youre living by would be called selfishness and self absorbency but thats too bad you cant relate to anyone else or care that what you do matters to alot of people, just like what you COULD do could matter to many more people. "The altruism you're preaching is a self-defeating philosophy, and a disgusting one at that. Lets all become the slave of our neighbor! Yay!" thats funny because its not even a philosophy that could be self defeating. it has no goal for personal gain besides perhaps your own happiness. i dont see at all where youre coming from on that one. its sad you have that negative of an outlook on such a positive and beneficial idea. but i guess to understand it, id be assuming too much, i just kind of assumed that everyone here did care about their neighbor. im not sure how thats disgusting.. but im not sitting here to convince you of anything because that never happens, i just dont want you to mutilate and twist what im saying and leave it looking like that. |
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Post by BrightEyes05 on Aug 25, 2004 15:43:37 GMT -5
Respect is something that needs to be earned. How can someone you've never met (a stranger) have earned your respect? For that matter, how can someone you've never met have upset or dissappointed you? Oh, also there is no conflict between respecting an individuals rights, and respecting the individual themself. However one (respecting their rights) is unconditional, whereas the other is very conditional. Whenever you've acted "selfless" towards someone (done a good deed, or whatever the hell you consider selfless) I'm sure you derive a very selfish pleasure in knowing that you helped someone, or made their life better, etc. Its not selfless at all, because if anyone, you do it for yourself. The "I" thing was meant in the literal sense. Putting someone else's well-being before your own is the same as doing a good deed. You only do it because you derive happiness in knowing you helped someone you care about. I'm very selfish. I'll admit that. I dont consider it a character flaw, otherwise I'd change it. I've never said I didnt care about anyone. I care about a few people, quite a bit, and the care is mutual. These are people who have earned my respect, however. I'm not saying that its wrong to help someone who needs it. I'm just saying that thats not love. Loaning a stranger five dollars when they're short a bit in the line at the grocery store isnt love. Neither is helping someone pick up something they've dropped. Its being nice. There's a difference, and if you dont see that, then you obviously dont know what love is.  |
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Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Aug 25, 2004 19:23:38 GMT -5
"Respect is something that needs to be earned. How can someone you've never met (a stranger) have earned your respect? For that matter, how can someone you've never met have upset or dissappointed you? Oh, also there is no conflict between respecting an individuals rights, and respecting the individual themself. However one (respecting their rights) is unconditional, whereas the other is very conditional."
respect is not something that everyone requires the earning of. do you honestly not know that everyone thinks and acts differently than yourself or do you just not acknowledge this fact? i think respect and love are things not in need of earning and should be shared freely. and since you never took that difference into account ill just ignore all those comments dependent on that one false assumption. "Whenever you've acted "selfless" towards someone (done a good deed, or whatever the hell you consider selfless) I'm sure you derive a very selfish pleasure in knowing that you helped someone, or made their life better, etc. "no actually i dont. really i hadnt given that any real thought. why does it make you sad to see your mother cry? not because somehow it would put you at a disadvantage, because you LOVE her! thats what love is, and if it isnt selfless, and is somehow selfish like what you're mentioning, than that isnt real love. it makes me sad to think you cant grasp that. "Putting someone else's well-being before your own is the same as doing a good deed. You only do it because you derive happiness in knowing you helped someone you care about"wrong. its true you could be putting someone elses well-being before your own by doing a good deed, but to do a good deed is not conclusively acting selflessly. the difference would be in the motivation, are you doing it for your satisfaction or for theirs? apparently you cant grasp other peoples stance and resolve to take your own which limits you to the selfish persons thoughts. fortunatley that isnt everyones case. "I'm not saying that its wrong to help someone who needs it. I'm just saying that thats not love. Loaning a stranger five dollars when they're short a bit in the line at the grocery store isnt love. Neither is helping someone pick up something they've dropped. Its being nice. There's a difference, and if you dont see that, then you obviously dont know what love is. "dont talk down to me and dont twist what im saying unless you honestly dont understand what im meaning. theres a difference between being nice and showing love. there was no dispute about that. but "being nice" is just one of the direct ways you could be showing love. ive never simplified it to that, so dont make up some huge conflict and talk like thats what ive said. there are so many ways you can love someone, be loved, show love and so on that i dont even think ill try to define it fairly. what i know is that its free, its powerful and all we need is more of it. so if you disagree id love to hear the argument against it
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Post by BrightEyes05 on Aug 25, 2004 19:43:58 GMT -5
Frankly, thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say, and I've heard you say some pretty irrational things. What kind of cheap love is the kind that doesnt need to be earned? If you hand something that is supposed to be special, like love, to just anyone, then it loses all meaning, and worth. Kind of like fucking whoever will have you, whenever they will have you. It makes an act that is supposed to be meaningful cheap, worthless, and a mockery of what it is supposed to represent. Obviously you're too ignorant to see that though.
Fair enough. Tell me that you dont feel some type of satisfaction when someone tells you "thank you" or appreciates what you may have helped them with. Do it. It'll make me laugh, and prove how skewed your views are.
I'm not talking down to you. You're obviously confused about the difference between the two, and I was trying to clear it up for you. Obviously you're having trouble grasping it, and I doubt you could if it cock slapped you in the face. Being nice isnt a different way of showing love. Its a way of showing affection, or compassion. There's a big difference.
Love isnt free. Its conditional. Love that is handed out unconditionally is worthless, like I've said. I dont know why you have so much trouble comprehending that.
I'll give you an example of conditional love. I love my sister Sam. I can say that easily enough, because its the truth. She's a very good person, she's got a good sense of humor, she's always been there for me if I needed her. You following all this so far, cause I dont wanna go too fast for you.
Alright, now then, my sister Michelle is the complete opposite. She dropped out of high school to marry the first douche that would marry her, she got knocked up, had kids, treats them like shit, does drugs, drinks, has sex with many many guys. She's a whore. I cant respect her, and I hate her for what she's doing to her children, and my mom. Do you expect me to love someone like that? If you do, then you obviously dont know what love is.
Get it now?
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Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Aug 25, 2004 20:52:05 GMT -5
"What kind of cheap love is the kind that doesnt need to be earned?" well let me think of all the love that is never earned but could hardly be called cheap in the sense that you mean it. really, if you werent implying, worthless and somehow less intense love by the word cheap i would not be bothered by that. love is the cheapest gift you could give anyone. it costs nothing and means so much. did you ever earn your mothers love? no. and thats what is so beautiful, that love doesnt need to be earned. you can recieve the kind of love that changes you forever and still wonder why someone loved you when you did nothing to earn that. thats beautiful. "If you hand something that is supposed to be special, like love, to just anyone, then it loses all meaning, and worth. Kind of like fucking whoever will have you, whenever they will have you. It makes an act that is supposed to be meaningful cheap, worthless, and a mockery of what it is supposed to represent." if that is how you choose to see it then that is your reality. but thats a shame. thats the thing about love, you can give it to EVERYONE and NEVER run out. if you love two people at the same time, the love you have for the first person does not become less intense, quite the contrary, the more you give, the more you have. if you arent sincere however, that is when it can lose meaning and worth in the eyes of the other people. thats the tragedy, but as long as you are sincere, where is the mockery? where is the worthlessness? where is the meaninglessness? "Obviously you're too ignorant to see that though." well obviously. all the people that disagree with me are just too ignorant too. or else, im sureee they would be 100% with me... "Fair enough. Tell me that you dont feel some type of satisfaction when someone tells you "thank you" or appreciates what you may have helped them with. Do it. It'll make me laugh, and prove how skewed your views are." well of course im happy if someone feels better. not because my own satisfaction was my goal in trying to help, but that i had succeeded in helping. understand? how does that make for a skewed view again? "I'm not talking down to you....You following all this so far, cause I dont wanna go too fast for you." are you sure? "You're obviously confused about the difference between the two, and I was trying to clear it up for you. Obviously you're having trouble grasping it, and I doubt you could if it cock slapped you in the face. Being nice isnt a different way of showing love. Its a way of showing affection, or compassion. There's a big difference. " half that paragraph was a big failed attempt at an elementary insult. everyones out of the fifth grade now, lets try to remember that... anyways, the problem is that we have different definitions of love. you limit yours to the way it is commonly defined by society instead of recognizing the many manifestations of love that can be everywhere. so until one of us adopts something new, there is no real commonground for gain in this debate and i think ive had enouph. youre just such a ray of fuckin sunshine. only you could do such a nice job of removing the focus and purpose in a thread about love for chrissake. "Love isnt free. Its conditional. Love that is handed out unconditionally is worthless, like I've said. I dont know why you have so much trouble comprehending that. " welllll.. its not that i dont understand what youre saying dear, i think it just might be the fact that i flat out disagree. "Alright, now then, my sister Michelle is the complete opposite. She dropped out of high school to marry the first douche that would marry her, she got knocked up, had kids, treats them like shit, does drugs, drinks, has sex with many many guys. She's a whore. I cant respect her, and I hate her for what she's doing to her children, and my mom." let me ask you a question. how far has that gotten any of you? from the way it sounds, not too damn far. so you continue to hate and disrespect? do you want things to stay the way they are or do you desire change? ill help you out, if hate and disrespect isnt doin the job, what, do you suppose could? i know its not an easy thing to see, but hate and what not does no good, whos to say that if you turn around and accept your sisters mistakes and love her for the good that she does have in her, that she will feel no different? that powerful display of love and forgiveness has shown me people who find the strength in themselves to change. hating them could never do that. you want her to be different, but you are not helping her change. "Do you expect me to love someone like that? If you do, then you obviously dont know what love is. " actually i dont even think i need to say anything here... |
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Post by BrightEyes05 on Aug 25, 2004 21:08:01 GMT -5
Its not helping or hurting me at all. If anything, its motivated me to not be like her. However, I've seen the repercussions of loving someone like that. I see it everytime I look into my moms eyes after she speaks with her. You see, she's as ignorant as you are, and because of it, she's hurt. She believes love is unconditional, so she loves all her children, in spite of how much it hurts her. Its a beautiful thing, right? Bullshit. Sure, you could say its beautiful that my mother would find it in her heart to love someone like that, but thats basically saying my mothers pain is beautiful, and thats fucked up. However, you know so much, and according to you love like that is the most beautiful thing in the world, right? Yet you say I'm ignorant and narrow minded, when you're the one speaking of things you have no knowledge of. Thats funny.
You have the right to disagree. Thats fine. See, I respect your rights as an individual. However, I dont respect you, because your views are terrible, often times illogical (I've explained why, anyone with any sense could comprehend what I've been trying to tell you) and you're into drugs. See how its conditional? See the difference? I can respect your rights, but not respect you. Get it, now that I've applied it to something you can relate to?
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Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Aug 25, 2004 21:44:04 GMT -5
"Its not helping or hurting me at all. If anything, its motivated me to not be like her."
well actually i was talking about your sister, but i forget. you dont give a damn about her. so why would you give a damn about whether you hurt her or not? (or leastly did not help her)
"However, I've seen the repercussions of loving someone like that. I see it everytime I look into my moms eyes after she speaks with her. You see, she's as ignorant as you are, and because of it, she's hurt. She believes love is unconditional, so she loves all her children, in spite of how much it hurts her."
well, you said it best yourself. youre a selfish self centered person. and you are missing out because you're too afraid of being hurt. because you havent seen how beautiful love can be. its more beautiful than it is painful. ive been emotionally hurt by my father, my sister, my friends, my boyfriend, soo much it can sometimes seem unbearable. but to expirience the ecstasy and frenzy and beauty of love so intensely, the pain is there to contrast and spark appreciation and in effect, i dont take it for granted and ive realized how sublime and ideal it really is. when you're happy and in love, pain is just incomparable.
"Its a beautiful thing, right? Bullshit. Sure, you could say its beautiful that my mother would find it in her heart to love someone like that, but thats basically saying my mothers pain is beautiful, and thats fucked up. However, you know so much, and according to you love like that is the most beautiful thing in the world, right? Yet you say I'm ignorant and narrow minded, when you're the one speaking of things you have no knowledge of. Thats funny. "
the pain is not beautiful, the love is. ask your mom. shes not regretting loving your sister, i can gaurantee it. some people do not just care about their own wellbeing and thank god for that. never think that your mother should not love your sister. shes what the world needs more of.
"You have the right to disagree. Thats fine. See, I respect your rights as an individual. However, I dont respect you, because your views are terrible, often times illogical (I've explained why, anyone with any sense could comprehend what I've been trying to tell you) and you're into drugs. See how its conditional? See the difference? I can respect your rights, but not respect you. Get it, now that I've applied it to something you can relate to?"
dont condescend. its not appreciated. you can respect that i have rights but not respect me, (im not sure why you keep bringing this up, im not opposing you...) but to not respect does no good. it doesnt make me want to change, it doesnt do anything beneficial. so why? whats the purpose?
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i really dont have anyone to vent to so im sorry. 
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if i were god i would give you your own little adam to have
