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Jun 21, 2004 18:37:02 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 21, 2004 18:37:02 GMT -5
But what I am trying to say is I think its an honest living, not for everyone, but who are you to look down on it, and what good do they do...If a guy is married to his wife been so for a long time, faithful and all, but during sex, isn't good anymore coz its kinda just boring, then if he'd spend one night in a club come home, he'd likely give her the best bang in years. same with girls, whats wrong with them going to a male strip club and seeing them guys, good way to get them ready for bed that night, I mean, I see no problem unless you burn all your money all the time there, I have only been to two, one of them is one of the best in the nation, Platinum Plus Memphis, TN and it had what we expected and a lot more, I went to the Hotel with a major case of the blue balls, but my girl is back at home waiting, I am not out looking to fuck, just have a good time, I see nothing wrong with that. So the pissy people that think its wrong and want to do away with them and novelty shops need to think of the importance of them in the first place, like whats it your business what someone does in the privacy of there own home. i just think a lot of it is stupid. well i definitley have a more conservative view on this one. i think strip clubs are degrading, disgusting, unrespectable places. my god, as a woman i think its awful that other women find themselves "comfortable" enouph to be degraded and objectionized for the pleasure of a bunch of pigheaded men! you talk about how you are more interested in sex with a woman you love, and then you turn around and see nothin wrong in looking at a woman with lust and treating her like your little object! disgusting! and god where do rationalize it all away enouph to think it not degrading! these women are no longer women! they're not looked at as humans, with feelings emotions, wants, needs, they are treated as objects! throw in enouph money and she'll do whatever you want. that is fucking degrading. until you get up on a stage and have money thrown at you like a fucking machine while a bunch of disgusting greasy old men look at you and until you understand how that makes you feel, you'll keep on being men. keep on justifying your wants and rationalizing the situation until: you can say, no no no, those women arent being degraded at all! ridiculous! they are! they dont do it for fun for chrissake! and why would you think? because, well its not fuckin fun to have a bunch of nasty men stare at you. i get pissed off whenever some guy checks me out. if you cant understand why things like that make you feel degraded to being an object, not a person, then jesus i give up. and by the way: surprise alot of what you do in private actually does matter to a lot of people. if you look at child porn, just because its not in front of a fucking crowd does not make it right! i dont know where the hell you come from but i cant understand how you havent realized that just because something happens in private does not makes it "no one elses business".
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Jun 21, 2004 18:40:34 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 21, 2004 18:40:34 GMT -5
jesus christ has there been no femminist movement at all. that might be the single most upsetting thing ive heard on this board.
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Jun 21, 2004 20:55:31 GMT -5
Post by JoRi on Jun 21, 2004 20:55:31 GMT -5
como se dice...GRRR
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Jun 21, 2004 23:32:38 GMT -5
Post by Dawn2Dusk on Jun 21, 2004 23:32:38 GMT -5
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Jun 22, 2004 0:14:07 GMT -5
Post by Monkey Bone on Jun 22, 2004 0:14:07 GMT -5
well i definitley have a more conservative view on this one. i think strip clubs are degrading, disgusting, unrespectable places. my god, as a woman i think its awful that other women find themselves "comfortable" enouph to be degraded and objectionized for the pleasure of a bunch of pigheaded men! you talk about how you are more interested in sex with a woman you love, and then you turn around and see nothin wrong in looking at a woman with lust and treating her like your little object! disgusting! and god where do rationalize it all away enouph to think it not degrading! these women are no longer women! they're not looked at as humans, with feelings emotions, wants, needs, they are treated as objects! throw in enouph money and she'll do whatever you want. that is fucking degrading. until you get up on a stage and have money thrown at you like a fucking machine while a bunch of disgusting greasy old men look at you and until you understand how that makes you feel, you'll keep on being men. keep on justifying your wants and rationalizing the situation until: you can say, no no no, those women arent being degraded at all! ridiculous! they are! they dont do it for fun for chrissake! and why would you think? because, well its not fuckin fun to have a bunch of nasty men stare at you. i get pissed off whenever some guy checks me out. if you cant understand why things like that make you feel degraded to being an object, not a person, then jesus i give up. and by the way: surprise alot of what you do in private actually does matter to a lot of people. if you look at child porn, just because its not in front of a fucking crowd does not make it right! i dont know where the hell you come from but i cant understand how you havent realized that just because something happens in private does not makes it "no one elses business". I really have only one thing to say to this They do that coz they choose to do that, they have freedom of choice. not like thats the only fucking job out there, and looking at women happens everyday, fuck woman look at MEN the same way, I seen it, WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO SAY THEIR CHOICE OF LIFE IS DEGRADING, Nobody forced them on that fucking stage nobody forced them to take there clothes off, they made that choice and make more money then I ever fucking will, if I had the assests to be a fucking stripper I would because its what I would choose, If i am treated like a fucking piece of meat well let me choose that, their lives would be better if people like you didn't put them in the fucking dirt all the fucking time, because they made a choice on what they wanted to do, If I am a fucking pig your a fucking nazi.
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Jun 22, 2004 11:12:17 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 22, 2004 11:12:17 GMT -5
jesus christ! do you actually believe those women get up thier and choose to be a stripper like they want to?? ha! thats naive and stupid! they have to work, to live, to maybe care for their children! responsibilitys that cost money, and like you say, what 200$ an hour? that'll get them by at least, why do you think people choose to be prostitutes?? why do you think?? because its fun?? because they like it?? jesus! i didnt think anyone believed that! do you ever meet a little girl and you ask them what they want to be when they grow up and they say, a stripper!?? i know people who have been strippers and they werent sitting and talking about it all the time because they hated the fact that they did! IM not degrading them, by sticking up for their morality and fucking decency and respect, its the pigs sittin in the bars throwin a couple bucks on the stage that degrade them! id rather be a nazi in favor of HUMAN DECENCY and respect than a fucking pig.
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Jun 22, 2004 11:27:29 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 22, 2004 11:27:29 GMT -5
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO SAY THEIR CHOICE OF LIFE IS DEGRADING, Nobody forced them on that fucking stage nobody forced them to take there clothes off, they made that choice and make more money then I ever fucking will, if I had the assests to be a fucking stripper I would because its what I would choose, If i am treated like a fucking piece of meat well let me choose that, #1 - when i say, "i think strip clubs are degrading" no stripper anywhere loses their job, im not preventing it, im trying to make people understand why its wrong. do you think this thread is closing strip clubs all over? uh uh. everyones still doing whatever they want. #2 - where oh where the hell do you come from? few and very far strippers are rich. no ones like.. well damn.. yeh i dont think im goin to college, ya know i can make twice as much... stripping! psh. yeh. im sure the strippers you go see arent living in 4 story mansions. you dont work normal hours, you work when you can. - and besides, i dont see what money has to do with making it right or not anyways?! soo... if you have alot of money you dont have to worry about whats right and wrong?? pretty much you're saying, well hey! who the hell cares if its wrong and degrading and disrespectful! cuz, afterall, THEY MAKE ALOTA MONEY!
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Jun 22, 2004 11:41:49 GMT -5
Post by BrightEyes05 on Jun 22, 2004 11:41:49 GMT -5
I think the problem here arises from context dropping. You cant just say: "This lady is a stripper." You need instead to say: "This lady is a stripper because..." and then follow that with reasons. What if the woman is stripping to pay her way through college? What if she is stripping to help pay for a medical bill? What if she is stripping to put food on the table for her children? Stuff like that is rather important while judging someone. You cant just say: "All strippers are whores with no dignity at all!" as an unwarranted, stand alone claim. You cant take a situation out of context and judge it accurately.
For some, it is the only way they can make ends meet. Are there other jobs? Of course. They could choose waitressing, or any other profession, but strippers make far more money than waitresses, and, in terms of physical labor, work far less.
Is it wrong to want to feed your family? I dont think so. Is it wrong to want to go to college and better yourself so that you can obtain the career you've always wanted, and maybe make a difference in the world? I dont think so.
You cant just drop a situation out of context.
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Jun 22, 2004 11:50:31 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 22, 2004 11:50:31 GMT -5
well i definitley hope i didnt call anyone who strips a "dirty whore" or whatever you said, or say that they are wrong in some way, because that is the exact opposite of what i was trying to get across.
i agree with everything you said nick, thats what i was trying to say, but you've done it better. those people dont do it for fun, or because they neccesarily are in complete enthusiastic favor for stripping, but that alot of them have noble reasons. they need money to live, and fulfill responsibilitys and/or maybe try to remove themselves from that dependence, by like nick said, going to college or what not. who i do think is wrong however, are people who think that they are being completeley respectful and dignified, but who are doing more to undermine and degrade women. that is whats wrong.
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Jun 22, 2004 11:53:09 GMT -5
Post by BrightEyes05 on Jun 22, 2004 11:53:09 GMT -5
Well, stripping wouldnt be much of a way to make ends meet without patrons, would it?
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Jun 22, 2004 12:04:48 GMT -5
Post by Monkey Bone on Jun 22, 2004 12:04:48 GMT -5
#1 - when i say, "i think strip clubs are degrading" no stripper anywhere loses their job, im not preventing it, im trying to make people understand why its wrong. do you think this thread is closing strip clubs all over? uh uh. everyones still doing whatever they want. #2 - where oh where the hell do you come from? few and very far strippers are rich. no ones like.. well damn.. yeh i dont think im goin to college, ya know i can make twice as much... stripping! psh. yeh. im sure the strippers you go see arent living in 4 story mansions. you dont work normal hours, you work when you can. - and besides, i dont see what money has to do with making it right or not anyways?! soo... if you have alot of money you dont have to worry about whats right and wrong?? pretty much you're saying, well hey! who the hell cares if its wrong and degrading and disrespectful! cuz, afterall, THEY MAKE ALOTA MONEY! but if you had your say, they would be closed down, you would make that choice coz it doesn't fit you. Who are the people that make strippers feel bad, the guy who treats them like a piece of meat, or the day they walk down the street, and women like you look at them and talk about them, put them in the dirt, treat them like they are not a decent human being, thats plan wrong, like Nick said there are many reasons they do it, and they are most likely comfortable with it, the guys treat them like they are prefect but then they face up to you and you turn away them. Its freedom of choice, you need to be more open with it, everything isn't gonna go down like you want it to, and just remember next time you think about them, your no different than them, human flesh and bone, trying to get from point a to point b in life, don't judge someone on that,
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Jun 22, 2004 12:07:18 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 22, 2004 12:07:18 GMT -5
Well, stripping wouldnt be much of a way to make ends meet without patrons, would it? yeh... i guess i do feel bad for those prostitutes too.. i guess ill just have to pick up a few every night, to ya know help make ends meet for them too. or, hire an assassin every once in a while. cuz i mean, they dont do it for fun either. you cant justify it like that. things dont change when they need to if you pass it off like that. thats a cheap justification for something that cant be justified. put your money somewhere else that creates jobs that dont disrespect degrade and demoralize their employees.
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Jun 22, 2004 12:13:03 GMT -5
Post by BrightEyes05 on Jun 22, 2004 12:13:03 GMT -5
There is nothing at all wrong with working to make ends meet. She is doing nothing illegal. She isnt selling drugs to innocent choir boys. She isnt killing people for profit, a la the assassins you just mentioned, she's dancing naked. There is a big difference.
If it came down to the lives of you and your children, or dancing naked for money, what would you pick? Dont give me that bullshit "I dont plan on having children" evasion either.
You're way too critical.
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Jun 22, 2004 12:26:50 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 22, 2004 12:26:50 GMT -5
but if you had your say, they would be closed down, you would make that choice coz it doesn't fit you. Who are the people that make strippers feel bad, the guy who treats them like a piece of meat, or the day they walk down the street, and women like you look at them and talk about them, put them in the dirt, treat them like they are not a decent human being, thats plan wrong, like Nick said there are many reasons they do it, and they are most likely comfortable with it, the guys treat them like they are prefect but then they face up to you and you turn away them. Its freedom of choice, you need to be more open with it, everything isn't gonna go down like you want it to, and just remember next time you think about them, your no different than them, human flesh and bone, trying to get from point a to point b in life, don't judge someone on that, oh thats ridiculous, ive known people who've done it, my best friend from a couple years ago is a stripper now, because she just recently had a child with an absent father and she needs to support her. whos looking down on them? the person who respects them and tries to protect their rights and dignity or the person treating them like a fucking object! never have i looked down and whispered and talked and acted like i was so much better than someone. i know im damn lucky im not in a situation that i need to strip to make ends meet! dont accuse me of that because i dont deserve that. ive never felt i was better than anyone that happens to be less than fortunate, and im not doing so now. but could you point out to me what i said when i was apparently "judging" them?? you have to remember im not the pig trying to rationalize my degrading pleasures. i respect the women for taking responsibility and doing whatever it takes to acheive something. and ill defend each one of them to a bunch of men trying to use them for whatever they like. yes, they are people just like me, and just like you. i think youre the one in need of realizing that, and that no they arent just objects and no, they sure as hell do not deserve to be degraded or demoralized in front of you because you threw a couple bucks at them!
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Jun 22, 2004 12:37:48 GMT -5
Post by Monkey Bone on Jun 22, 2004 12:37:48 GMT -5
oh thats ridiculous, ive known people who've done it, my best friend from a couple years ago is a stripper now, because she just recently had a child with an absent father and she needs to support her. whos looking down on them? the person who respects them and tries to protect their rights and dignity or the person treating them like a fucking object! never have i looked down and whispered and talked and acted like i was so much better than someone. i know im damn lucky im not in a situation that i need to strip to make ends meet! dont accuse me of that because i dont deserve that. ive never felt i was better than anyone that happens to be less than fortunate, and im not doing so now. but could you point out to me what i said when i was apparently "judging" them?? you have to remember im not the pig trying to rationalize my degrading pleasures. i respect the women for taking responsibility and doing whatever it takes to acheive something. and ill defend each one of them to a bunch of men trying to use them for whatever they like. yes, they are people just like me, and just like you. i think youre the one in need of realizing that, and that no they arent just objects and no, they sure as hell do not deserve to be degraded or demoralized in front of you because you threw a couple bucks at them! how are they being degraded because they chose something not up to YOUR standards, because your the only fuck that seems to matter, if they choose to be treated like an object how are they loosing dignity, how is it degraded, they made the choice, and by you saying its degrading to woman, you are judging them, you are degrading them, not me
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