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Sex
Jun 22, 2004 13:53:55 GMT -5
Post by Josh on Jun 22, 2004 13:53:55 GMT -5
Alright, that post's enouph for me. Im done. I give up. Yeh you wouldn't see anything wrong with women taking off their clothes for money would you. Well this is pointless and im ashamed i even tried. i have too much faith in people. I think that entire post should've been towards the very beggining of the debate though, when i hadnt already talked about every. single. thing. you just mentioned. Sorry to waste your precious time. But really, the moral superiority you're trying to pull here is ridiculous. You approached this subject all wrong from the beginning when, instead of acting calmly and rationally debating the subject, you came in guns blazing with a bunch of profanity laced rants that made you look foolish.
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Sex
Jun 22, 2004 13:54:05 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 22, 2004 13:54:05 GMT -5
God... i hope not all men are like you 3. Or does every single man really agree with objectifying women. Rhetorical question, please god. dont answer.
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Sex
Jun 22, 2004 14:06:11 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 22, 2004 14:06:11 GMT -5
Sorry to waste your precious time. But really, the moral superiority you're trying to pull here is ridiculous. You approached this subject all wrong from the beginning when, instead of acting calmly and rationally debating the subject, you came in guns blazing with a bunch of profanity laced rants that made you look foolish. yeh... its almost like i was really upset or something. of course i get more than pissed off. but ill stop myself. i almost thought you might understand. yeh im sorry you wasted my time too. could've done something alot better with it. like go objectify my boyfriend for example. but please, go on. what else do you think i should do better next time? maybe could i have you fill out an evaluation form or something sometime, uh huh thanks. well all thats resulted here is alot of loss of respect, alot of bullshit and alot of dissapointment. you can go back to staring at naked girls and treating them like toys, but please. dont ever stop knowing everything.
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Sex
Jun 22, 2004 14:23:24 GMT -5
Post by Josh on Jun 22, 2004 14:23:24 GMT -5
Once again, I don't go to strip clubs, so your last comment is just nothing.
Here's what I do understand: I believe that a woman's body is her own property. If she exposes it for all to see, then it's her choice. Of course, at the same time, it's actually the woman who is objectifying her body by treating it as a product to make money. It's not the fault of the men. I'll go back to my question: If I'm to take my clothes off and invite people to come see me, then who's to blame for what occurs? It's me isn't it?
You're claiming to be feminist, or at least support feminist ideals. However, it seems to be that a woman's body is her own only if what she does with it fits with your idea of what's right. You're the one who is taking away from these women.
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Sex
Jun 22, 2004 14:57:15 GMT -5
Post by Monkey Bone on Jun 22, 2004 14:57:15 GMT -5
You really don't know how to handle, I wish I could be objectified hell make me have great self esteem, I love when a girl keeps looking at me, no matter if she's ugly gives me a bump on my self esteem, Guys want to be objectified, hell think about the backstreet boys, 5 totally different guys with no fucking talent thrown together with a coragrapher so the women can jump up and down screaming and crying, sounds like objectifing to me, ok they don't get naked, but there are male strip clubs, objectifing men for woman, nothing wrong with it. Sex sells, hell Herbal Essesance sells there products off a female orgaism, guess you have a problem with that too. Oh well its not gonna change the fact that the girl made the choice to objectified, some of them love it, love their body, love their sexuality, love sex, ok whats wrong with doing WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY not a damn thing. Like I said, hell a girl asks what I am packin' I'll show it, she treats me like a piece of meat, its all ok, I just don't have the assests so now am I gonna have some dude come up and say Your degrading me because your so comfortable with your sexuality that you'd flaunt it whenever,because we are both men, I tell him oh fucking well, sorry you don't have what i have and thats comfortabilty with my sexuality, thats what is comes down too, In no way am I degrading her by chunking a few dollars on stage, and she's loving it. I think not, but I do know by her looking at other people and them sayin you know there is other ways to make a living you shouldn't flaunt yourself like that, its wrong. well she feels like shit because her sex doesn't except her life style.
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Sex
Jun 22, 2004 16:07:45 GMT -5
Post by JoRi on Jun 22, 2004 16:07:45 GMT -5
hmm...what started out as a nice conversation about gettin it on has turned ugly....like a bad porno
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Sex
Jun 22, 2004 20:53:25 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 22, 2004 20:53:25 GMT -5
You really don't know how to handle, I wish I could be objectified hell make me have great self esteem, I love when a girl keeps looking at me, no matter if she's ugly gives me a bump on my self esteem, Guys want to be objectified, hell think about the backstreet boys, 5 totally different guys with no fucking talent thrown together with a coragrapher so the women can jump up and down screaming and crying, sounds like objectifing to me, ok they don't get naked, but there are male strip clubs, objectifing men for woman, nothing wrong with it. Sex sells, hell Herbal Essesance sells there products off a female orgaism, guess you have a problem with that too. Oh well its not gonna change the fact that the girl made the choice to objectified, some of them love it, love their body, love their sexuality, love sex, ok whats wrong with doing WHAT MAKES YOU HAPPY not a damn thing. Like I said, hell a girl asks what I am packin' I'll show it, she treats me like a piece of meat, its all ok, I just don't have the assests so now am I gonna have some dude come up and say Your degrading me because your so comfortable with your sexuality that you'd flaunt it whenever,because we are both men, I tell him oh fucking well, sorry you don't have what i have and thats comfortabilty with my sexuality, thats what is comes down too, In no way am I degrading her by chunking a few dollars on stage, and she's loving it. I think not, but I do know by her looking at other people and them sayin you know there is other ways to make a living you shouldn't flaunt yourself like that, its wrong. well she feels like shit because her sex doesn't except her life style. and that long.. well whatever it was.. is exactly the reason why ive realized. its useless. you're men, you're never gonna know what it feels like to be a woman. you just arent. ever. i cant make you feel the way i do sometimes, because you are a man. and god i hope i never feel the way you do. i speak for myself and well, every female i know when i say that i will never understand, nor do i want to, your comment, "I wish I could be objectified". so we're different. you look at the world and issues like this in such a way that appeals to you and i do the same. i understand how it makes a woman feel, and well you've made it clear enouph that you do not. so ill leave it at that. and infinite apathy, i really cant remember ever claiming myself as a femminist or that i support their ideals at all, but to an extent i guess you could say i do. i have some very close friends who are hardcore anarchofemminists. and wow. they'd love to hear that, that on our way to equality, it is essential that we encourage women to, go ahead, strip for some greasy men in a bar. i mean, because ya know its a choice and all, that you can do with your female body, so apparently if its a choice, then damnit, theres no question about it, go ahead and make it, just to "choose".. (somehow i guess this must make you equal to the men stickin money in your pantys?) oh wait. that didnt make a bit of sense did it. damn. honestly, do you know anything about femminism or are you just pulling this out of your ass? i need to know. because if you've actually read some.. well, im amazed at how little its done for you man.. maybe its best you just go ahead and let the whole femminism argument go.
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Sex
Jun 23, 2004 13:48:03 GMT -5
Post by BrightEyes05 on Jun 23, 2004 13:48:03 GMT -5
You're way too emotional about the topic. You're supposed to regard a debate with logic, and rationality, not raw emotion. Not only that, but you're very sarcastic and bitter, whereas Josh, Mike (for the most part) and I have said what we've said in earnest.
Oh, and on a side note, I'm not old enough to go to a strip club, and I really dont want to. Not my thing.
Its their choice to do what they do. As we've all said many times before, no one is forcing them to do what they do. Thats all I'm going to say.
Also, proper treatment probably wouldnt mean much to women who's children are starving because they dont make enough money, would it?
I'm not going to get started on feminism, and the how skewed the views of feminists are. You'll take it the wrong way, and get all uppity, and I dont want that.
Also, have you ever stripped for money? Until you have, no matter how many people you know that have, or what you think you know, you really dont know what its like.
You've ignored male strippers. Do you feel as strongly about them as you do about female strippers? Are the women that visit those clubs greasy like the men that visit female strip clubs? Just curious as to your opinion. If not, then you've got a massive double standard going on... and those shouldnt be acceptable, especially by a woman who wants equal rights, treatment, etc for women and men.
Would it suit your needs more if these women, instead of making an honest ( and it is honest, because its perfectly legal) living instead turned to selling drugs, or stealing to provide the means to sustain their lives?
There are infinitely worse things than a woman stripping in a club by her own consent and volition. You're blowing the whole thing out of proportion.
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Sex
Jun 23, 2004 14:27:36 GMT -5
Post by JoRi on Jun 23, 2004 14:27:36 GMT -5
amen, nick pulled a serious! and i totally agree
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Sex
Jun 23, 2004 15:28:18 GMT -5
Post by Josh on Jun 23, 2004 15:28:18 GMT -5
jesus christ has there been no femminist movement at all. that might be the single most upsetting thing ive heard on this board. This is what I was talking about with the feminist statement. I took this to mean you were either a feminist or believed strongly in what they said. If neither of these applies, then there was no reason for you to bring this up. For the record, this is what feminism is according to the dictionary: fem·i·nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fm-nzm) n. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes. The movement organized around this belief. feminism n 1: a doctrine that advocates equal rights for women 2: the movement aimed at equal rights for women [syn: feminist movement, women's liberation movement, women's lib] Now, as far as that's concerned, I'm a feminist myself. I completely believe in equal rights and opportunities for women. And one of the effects of these equal rights in society is that women can choose to expose their bodies for money. Good for them. I'd say they're very strong women.
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Sex
Jun 24, 2004 10:25:20 GMT -5
Post by ZeroSaidSadly on Jun 24, 2004 10:25:20 GMT -5
Now, as far as that's concerned, I'm a feminist myself. I completely believe in equal rights and opportunities for women. And one of the effects of these equal rights in society is that women can choose to expose their bodies for money. Good for them. I'd say they're very strong women. Awright though i dont think feminism should be expounded upon with just a simple dictionary definition, as ive said i dont know how many times before, im not for removing this choice in any governmental sense, but i simply wish that it was not something that women should have to do to support a family. crucify me. i strongly do feel this way and i really havent seen anything any of you have presented that justifies it in any way to me. its a shame that you can make a living off being obejectified and i dont respect the men or women that find it enjoying. women needing money, being comfortable with it, they are all circumstances, none of which that actually address weather or not this is degrading or demoralizing. you talk about all these things as if they make any difference to how degrading it is. nick: i know the best debate is one without emotion but i think this is an emotional issue and im not appologizing for feeling strongly and emotionally about it. i think the general question of it affects me and many people very strongly, and yes, im a very sarcastic person, all the time. i dont really care much.. sorry if you do. "Also, proper treatment probably wouldnt mean much to women who's children are starving because they dont make enough money, would it?" thats what im talking about. who cares if the women put their children first? are they any less degraded by it? I really dont think that has anything to do with it. You're throwing all these things out in front of really answering weather or not this is degrading. if not degrading to a specific stripper, but to our humanity and dignity. which i personally dont believe you are understood yourself, understanding others or being any more compassionate by thinking and treating the other sex as an object. it doesnt get us far, and just further desensitizes us. of course i dont support that. and im not going to just because, its legal, they dont have a gun to their head, and you're payed. now these are all things you would need to question before taking any authority and wiping it all out with government action or such, but thats not what id like to do, what i support are the people who dont take pleasure in objectifying other humans and choose not to do it and hopefully do not feel ok with others treating themselves, or anyone else with that disrespect. more a social change and ending of it than what you are trying to tack on me as my goal. for your question about male strippers, no of course i dont support that either, anyone objectifying another human is wrong. i couldn't care what your sexual preference might be really. and no i have never stripped for money and im glad that ive never had to. but i definitley do know what it feels like to be treated like an object rather than a person and it isnt a positive feeling as i hope you can imagine. why, have you ever stripped for money? and finally, besides the fact im not worried about what "suits my needs", i never said stop stripping now. ive said, we should put our money in better places, so they dont have to strip. OR steal, or sell drugs for that matter. i couldn't care less if there are things worse than stripping. theres worse things than domestic abuse, so should we just allow it to happen? i think something needs to change when we're ok with choosing the best out of the three, stripping, drugs, or stealing, dont you?
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Triscafoole
Storyteller
Wishful thinking only makes the truth more painful.
Posts: 557
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Sex
Jul 31, 2004 22:04:07 GMT -5
Post by Triscafoole on Jul 31, 2004 22:04:07 GMT -5
This world is based on wants and needs. Because there are plenty of men who desire sex and are willing to do anything for it, there will be people willing to make money off of it. Personally i don't find strip clubs appealing. I respect women. But there are women who need the money and find stripping easier than doing real work and don't mind doing "degrading" work.
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Sex
Aug 1, 2004 0:28:59 GMT -5
Post by JoRi on Aug 1, 2004 0:28:59 GMT -5
i think im a doomed virgin
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Sex
Aug 1, 2004 7:37:54 GMT -5
Post by Sofee on Aug 1, 2004 7:37:54 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with being a virgin... sex really isn't all that worth getting worked up about.
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Sex
Aug 1, 2004 12:38:57 GMT -5
Post by Monkey Bone on Aug 1, 2004 12:38:57 GMT -5
well I don't think i am going under the age of 23 ever again. not after what happened ;D
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